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Author	Topic: Early Silver Age Superman
Old Dude Member	posted February 11, 2003 05:49 PM quote: Originally posted by Owen Cardiff Darcy: SUPERMAN: THE MAN OF TOMORROW ARCHIVES VOL. 1 (222/240 pages) ACTION COMICS #241-247 and SUPERMAN (1st series) #122-126 Ah, this was the time period soon after I started collecting comics. With the sole exceptions of Action Comics #246 and Superman #126, I have all the other stories in this proposed archive. But these are the same copies I've had since I was 9 years old, when I used to read comics like a 9-year-old — that is, fold back the cover and each page thereafter as it's read, then when it's done, stick it in your back pocket and take carry it around so you can read it again an hour later. And I reread them uncountable times! Most of the covers are gone, the pages are loose, the edges brittle. So although I already have most of the contents of this archive, I will still eagerly buy it on the day it hits the stands! IP: Logged
Old Dude Member	posted February 11, 2003 05:57 PM quote: Originally posted by CMCINTYRE3600: With Batman, you have the New Look as a difinitive breaking point that seperated the GA and the SA Batman... Personally, I feel that the New Look (1963?) is MUCH to late for the beginning of the Silver Age Batman, especially when the 1956 appearance of Barry Allen and the arrival of Mort Weisinger as Superman editor in 1958 is considered the beginning of the Silver Age for those characters. However, I can't come up with a more appropriate point in the late '50s. IP: Logged
James Friel Member	posted February 11, 2003 06:07 PM quote: Originally posted by Old Dude: Personally, I feel that the New Look (1963?) is MUCH to late for the beginning of the Silver Age Batman, especially when the 1956 appearance of Barry Allen and the arrival of Mort Weisinger as Superman editor in 1958 is considered the beginning of the Silver Age for those characters. However, I can't come up with a more appropriate point in the late '50s. How about the beginning of the silly period--Batwoman, Ace the Bat-Hound, Bat-Girl,Bat-Mite, Bat-gyros, pink & purple aliens, monstrous transformations rivalling Jimmy Olsen's? That period was contemporary with the early Weisinger Superman and the early Schwartz Golden Age revivals. The New Look was really toward the end of the real Silver SAge. IP: Logged
Owen Cardiff Darcy Member	posted February 11, 2003 07:35 PM Okay, old-timers, which story or event officially marks the beginning of Batman's silly period? IP: Logged
outpost2 Member	posted February 11, 2003 08:02 PM IMO, a 50's Silver Age Batman line should strive to include the adventures of: a) Bathound (Batman #92, June 1955) b) Batwoman (Detective Comics #233, July 1956) c) Bat-Mite (Detective Comics #267, May 1959) d) Bat-Girl (Batman #139, April 1961) So I would vote for Batman #92 or earlier as a starting point for this line. I have no idea when the "silly era" actually began though. IP: Logged
outpost2 Member	posted February 11, 2003 08:03 PM Actually, that would be "pre-Silver Age", wouldn't it? IP: Logged
vze2 Member	posted February 11, 2003 09:11 PM I'd rather not see Batman fragmented any more than it already is. I'd rather see any kind of anthology (1950s vol. 2, More Greatest Batman, lost 100-pager, whatever) or focus on Detective Comics to get to this period. However, if you were going to identify a starting point, I would say Detective 230 or 231 based on the covers. 230 is the last cover by Win Mortimer, but in my opinion it has more in common with Sheldon Moldoff's cover from 231 than it does with previous covers by Mortimer. 230 is the first appearance of the second Mad Hatter, the one that the TV show version was based on. 231 has Batman Jr. 233 Batwoman, 236 the Bat-Tank, 237 "The Search for a New Robin". Future issues include Batman's Robot Twin, The Outlaw Batman, The Rainbow Batman, The Giant Batman and various Green Arrow-like batarangs: magnet, bomb, flash bulb, seeing-eye, police whistle. Some of the earlier covers are silly, but I think 230 kicked it up a notch. I don't know about Batman. IP: Logged
Old Dude Member	posted February 12, 2003 12:51 AM I'd line up behind Batwoman (Detective Comics #233) as the start of Batman's Silver Age. IP: Logged
Carsda Member	posted February 12, 2003 01:21 AM having seen the covers for the "proposed" Silver Age SUPERMAN book...I can't wait! it looks awesome! bring it on as soon as possible, maybe 1st Q 2004??? IP: Logged
CMCINTYRE3600 Member	posted February 12, 2003 11:03 AM quote: Originally posted by outpost2: Actually, that would be "pre-Silver Age", wouldn't it? Well, Flash was '56, right? So it's not that much before that. I would say it's acceptable. When did J'onn first appear? I've always concidered that the real begining of the Silver Age. On the other hand, though, didn't Bob say they specifically WANTED to skip the early Silver Age "Silly" Batman? Cant' really blame them either. I know that I, personally, have no real interest in that era. Batman Archives and Dark Knight will get there eventually. There's no rush. Chris IP: Logged
Old Dude Member	posted February 12, 2003 09:02 PM The problem is that the baby is being thrown out with the bathwater, to use a medieval expression. Nestled among the Invaders From Dimension X, Bat-Mite Returns, The Zebra Batman, and other such classics of bizarre silliness, there were some really good stories. The titles escape me after so long, but not the plots. They were solid, old fashioned Batman stories with a Golden Age sensibility. — A big-time gangster was being transported to prison by train, and the mob swore to free him before he ever reached his destination. Batman rode along to make sure he made it to the pen. There was exciting action atop the train, and great detection as when Batman uncovers a bogus railway conductor merely by the way he answered the question, "What time is it?" — A costume party for millionaires was raided by a gang of crooks, and Bruce Wayne had to thwart the crime while wearing a Batman costume without revealing his double identity. — The Dynamic Duo rush to Batman Island to aid the eccentric millionaire who built a huge museum in honor of his hero, when he was threatened by crooks. — Steve Utley's favorite, where Batman solves a murder on Dinosaur Island. — And one of MY favorites: "The Body in the Bat-Cave," in which Batman finds the corpse of a criminal scientist in the fabled cave. Batman must solve the murder, knowing full well that the killer must also know the Bat-cave's location. Yeah, I could do without The Interplanetary Manhunt, The Batman Genie, and The Giant Hand From Beyond, but I'd dearly love to read those other stories that accompanied them. Also, I find that the silly stories were quite bearable when Dick Sprang did the art. IP: Logged
James Friel Member	posted February 12, 2003 09:31 PM Well put, Dude. And there were even some of the silly stories that I have fond memories of reading. I've always kinda liked Batwoman. Certainly far better than Batgirl, whose TV origins never wore off for me. Overall, despite all their many shortcomings, I think I'd rather read the stories from this period than those from the period now being collected in the Dynamic Duo Archives. IP: Logged
whoswhoz New Member	posted February 19, 2003 09:06 PM quote: Originally posted by Owen Cardiff Darcy: Okay, old-timers, which story or event officially marks the beginning of Batman's silly period? I voter for Detective , Jan 1958 "The Alien Batman" in which Vicki Vale decides that the reason Batman's hood has those ears is because that's what Batman's real ears look like! IP: Logged
James Friel Member	posted February 20, 2003 03:10 AM quote: Originally posted by Old Dude: ...Also, I find that the silly stories were quite bearable when Dick Sprang did the art. Yeah, they were. Some of the Superman/Batman teamups in World's Finest were every bit as silly as anything that ever appeared in any of the other Shiff Batman or Weisinger Superman family titles. But Sprang made it work. IP: Logged
Michael Bise Member	posted February 20, 2003 08:46 AM quote: Originally posted by CMCINTYRE3600: With Batman, you have the New Look as a difinitive breaking point that seperated the GA and the SA Batman (as well as the E2 and E1 Batman too, IIRC). That seems the obvious starting point for a new Archive. Chris Batwoman wasn't on Earth-One? I seem to remember her meeting up with Barbara Gordon at an amusement park in FREEDOM FIGHTERS in 1977..... ------------------ Rock a little, Michael "I will ride through the snow in an old-fashioned carriage Drawn by a small golden horse... she runs like the wind..." "Julia" ~ Stevie Nicks IP: Logged
Owen Cardiff Darcy Member	posted February 20, 2003 04:36 PM quote: Originally posted by Michael Bise: Batwoman wasn't on Earth-One? I seem to remember her meeting up with Barbara Gordon at an amusement park in FREEDOM FIGHTERS in 1977..... Weren't the Freedom Fighters from Earth-X? Now I'm really confused. IP: Logged
Owen Cardiff Darcy Member	posted February 20, 2003 04:40 PM quote: Originally posted by James Friel: Yeah, they were. Some of the Superman/Batman teamups in World's Finest were every bit as silly as anything that ever appeared in any of the other Shiff Batman or Weisinger Superman family titles. But Sprang made it work. I wonder if we'd have such fond memories of the Weisinger era if those stories hadn't been drawn by the likes of Swan, Boring and Schaffenberger. IP: Logged
James Friel Member	posted February 20, 2003 04:50 PM quote: Originally posted by Owen Cardiff Darcy: I wonder if we'd have such fond memories of the Weisinger era if those stories hadn't been drawn by the likes of Swan, Boring and Schaffenberger. Hard to say. John Forte was scarcely a master of the graphic page, but his stiff artwork somehow contributes to the early Legion's almost surrealistic appeal. Still, your question could be asked with just as much justification if you substituted the names of Julius Shwartz, Gil Kane, Carmine Infantino, and Murphy Anderson.... IP: Logged
India Ink Member	posted February 20, 2003 05:34 PM Old Dude made the point that I would have made. But since this is a perfect set-up for something I've wanted to elaborate, I'll make the point again. Until DC has archived the entire period of Batman from 1955 to 1964 I won't be able to decide if Batman ever really had a silly period. Without checking my dates, as I recall Ace was introduced in 1955 (I'm not sure the introduction of a dog in itself qualifies as silly--although I guess the mask-bit is kind of silly--but then Bat-Hombre's horse also wore a mask back in 1949). Then Batwoman in 1956. Then, I think, Bat-mite in 1959, and Bat-Girl finally in 1960. So the full-blown silly, if it happened, didn't happen until 1960. But without reading all the Batman stories it's hard to decide if silliness (and what is silliness?) pervaded all the Batman comics. Editors tend to select out the oddball stories for reprinting--so maybe the oddball stories are over-represented in reprint collections. I don't get the same sense of bizarreness from reading the synopses in my Batman encyclopedia. The other type that people point out besides the Batman family story is the science fiction story (and sometimes the sci fi and family story are combined in one story). I note that these science fiction tales--often written by Edmond Hamilton--are not very serious sci fi--not on the level of the Superman stories from the same period. The appeal here is to a younger audience. And the main point is to include some wierd image--aliens in Superman comics are usually mundane human in appearance, whereas in Batman comics they are odd ducks indeed. And is wierd imagery really so unusual for a Batman comic? In the earlier Batman comics there were all kinds of occult images. The Monk, the Duc d'Orterre, Dr. Death. Dr. Hugo Strange who makes monsters out of humans is a combination of science fiction and horror in the tradition of Mary Shelley's Frankenstein (a gothic horror AND an early version of science fiction). The Joker (whose origins are unexplained) is simply a bizarre figure. And so on. Ghosts, odd looking people, monsters, anthropomorphic creatures--these are common features in the first twenty-five years of Batman. But with the comics code, the occult basis for these oddities (or even their mere insanity) is outlawed. So instead, the explanation for these oddballs shifts over to science fiction. Yet the objective remains the same--giving the kid readers some startling images to grab their attention. IP: Logged
Steven Utley Member	posted February 20, 2003 05:42 PM Not all of the Batman stories published during the late 1950s and early 1960s were silly. Not that many Batman stories published during those years weren't plenty silly, but there were some swell murder-mystery yarns, too, such as (if memory serves) "Murder in Mystery Castle," written by Leigh Brackett. Another favorite, from 1959, is "The Second Life of Batman," wherein Bruce Wayne finds out what would have become of him had his parents not been killed by a robber; Dick Sprang drew it, and Superman puts in an appearance. IP: Logged
India Ink Member	posted February 20, 2003 05:47 PM I was on a "D" roll in my previous post and typed Hugo Strange as a doctor when we all know he's a professor. My apologies to his family. IP: Logged
James Friel Member	posted February 20, 2003 05:56 PM quote: Originally posted by India Ink: I was on a "D" roll in my previous post and typed Hugo Strange as a doctor when we all know he's a professor. My apologies to his family. I'm sure his nephews Adam and Stephen will understand. IP: Logged
Michael Bise Member	posted February 20, 2003 06:01 PM quote: Originally posted by Owen Cardiff Darcy: Weren't the Freedom Fighters from Earth-X? Now I'm [b]really confused.[/B] Yeah, but they moved to Earth-One in 1975, which is where their series was set. Batwoman was on Earth-One. ------------------ Rock a little, Michael "I will ride through the snow in an old-fashioned carriage Drawn by a small golden horse... she runs like the wind..." "Julia" ~ Stevie Nicks IP: Logged
dcexplosion78 Member	posted February 20, 2003 08:11 PM Batwoman was also on Earth-2. See B&B 182 ...the awesome Alan Brennert story. IP: Logged

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